It is often said that the measure of a man is not his wins, but how he is able to come back from his losses. The industry is rough; it’ll tear up, chew up and spit out the toughest of them. We’ve seen it happen to too many and it’s not about to stop any time soon. In nature, that phenomenon is called natural selection. It describes the gradual process by which biological traits become either more or less common, based on how suited they are to survive in their environment. It is a key mechanism of evolution, so that only the strongest emerge. On a slightly chilly Thursday morning, K.O is seated at a corner booth of a Mugg and Bean in the north of Johannesburg with his business partner. A radiating product of natural selection in the flesh.
Why was the idea of Cashtime conceived? You were part of Teargas and 10 years deep in the game at the time. Most people would consider a new venture like that a massive risk, especially because you never know how people will receive change.
First of all, like you say I had a nice solid run with Teargas. But on our third album I started to think that I wasn’t completely content with what we were bringing to the game. I was like, yes we’ve done so many great things for ourselves but how are we giving back to the culture? And at that point the Cashtime Entertainment situation was conceived. So I thought we’d find some talented young dudes and try to launch their careers. We wanted to get out there and try create a super clique on some TKZee family sh*t.
So it was about talent development then? Like a record label?
One thing I’ve always been aware of is that nothing is guaranteed in this world and especially in the music business. You could be hot today and your next album can bomb out. When you look at a guy like Wayne, he has no ego. He could’ve easily signed Nicki and Drake and made them bench because he wanted to be the man his whole career. But now they are the biggest artists in the game and he can look at them killing it and be like, that’s me over there! He lives through them and that has kept him relevant even during the times when he wasn’t so active. So I also viewed Cashtime as an investment that went beyond our own musical ventures and I’m glad that Ma-E was with me at the time. Eezy saw the vision when I first put the whole thing on the table. The thing that we wanted to do differently is establish it as a media company, as opposed to a record label. Cashtime was meant to be a multi-solution entertainment hub for management, production, events and a whole lot of other things. And because our strength in the industry was music, that’s how we chose to launch ourselves and make our presence known. We picked up X, Smashis and AB Crazy and we made an album.
There were obviously some internal things that went down in the clique at first after that album. I remember AB Crazy not being at performances and before we knew it, it seemed as though things kind of fell apart.
The boys and I went back and continued with the Teargas journey to release N8mber N8mber in 2012 and things started going otherwise in the Cashtime Family space. AB Crazy felt like he was ready to embark on his solo career and at the time unfortunately we couldn’t really get behind him. We didn’t have the resources. So we split amicably and wished him well. X and Smashis were left to find themselves as a duo and the structure didn’t really work so it made me rethink the whole situation. In 2013 I
figured it would be best if we just dissolved the whole Cashtime Family situation and let the artists run as solo artists, and this is how we rebranded ourselves …
… And that’s when Cashtime ‘Life’ came in?
We went back to the blueprint of the media company we’d developed from the beginning. Forget Cashtime Entertainment and forget Cashtime Family; we want to be a lifestyle brand that can put our own merchandise and throw concerts, manage artists, produce films and even get into real estate if that’s what we wanted to do down the line. We didn’t want to be restricted to anything. And that’s why we added the ‘Life’ in Cashtime.
Getting into the music, what’s really impressive to witness is that you’re flourishing at a time in your career when most start to decline. What ignited this second (and better) wave of K.O that we’re seeing?
First of all, I’m a fan of hip hop and music through and through and when I got into rapping it wasn’t because I wanted to be a star. I’m such a fan of this sh*t and all I wanted to do from the jump was contribute in some way to this culture. I was blessed enough to be received well by listeners. One mistake that a lot of guys my age and so-called OGs make is turning a blind eye to the new wave. I remember when Soulja Boy came out they said that he was killing hip hop. This weekend Soulja Boy was on stage with Kanye at a big show in Atlanta performing ‘All Day’ together. Who are we to sit here and be like “f*ck Casper, I’m an OG and I don’t condone this sh*t?” So the conscious decision I made was that, like Kanye, Dr. Dre, Diddy, Snoop and all these guys who cultivate talent, I would be open-minded to new sounds and new talent. Because successful contemporary artists represent their generation and we can’t ignore that. I started learning that sometimes people don’t want to hear about the moon and stars and all that galactic sh*t, they just want to relate. They want to turn up and party and sh*t. Simple. With every new wave, I try as much as possible to understand it and embrace it because as soon as you become a hater, the game starts hating you back.
So you’d attribute your second run in the game to the generation?
Look, I was around guys like Kid X and Smashis who are monster f*cking rappers! We came in rapping the way we did but as soon as we had the kids around us, our sh*t got better. Kid X is incredible! He doesn’t exactly pen his sh*t down. He memorises his lines and verses and then gets in the booth and just laces that sh*t. When I saw him in studio I was like, “Damn! I need to step the f*ck up!” So when you surround yourself with people who challenge you, it brings out the best in you. It’s about being a fan and being able to put yourself against the best of the best and understanding the fact that you can’t always be the man. I learn a lot from the young’ns.
Does Nomuzi’s signing fall into that? As a hip-hop head you must’ve known that it would be received as an unpopular decision to bring a non-musician into this space and onto this platform.
It’s not a secret that Nomuzi doesn’t come from the rap background. People forget that you can be a naturally great emcee but it takes a lot more to be a star. Her aura, presence, personality and attitude, she’s got all that sh*t. Unfortunately there are not many other female rappers who we can work around who have the full package and match the Cashtime brand. We can see that she’s hungry and young, willing to learn and takes instruction well. Her stage presence is amazing too, so we took all of her attributes and directed them into the music. ‘Se7en’ was the first we heard her spit. Everyone knows you can’t judge a person based on their first verse. It’s not a classic verse, I can tell you that. But when the video came out and people actually saw her doing her thing and owning the sh*t that she was saying, there was a whole paradigm shift. She is bigger than just a personality, she is a force. So in the next record people are going to hear she sounds even better because she’s getting better by the day. Our whole thing was we don’t want her to be the hottest girl, we want her to be one of the hottest rappers. Period. So if you’re a rap dude and you’re comfortable right now, we want her to make you uncomfortable.
Word. Cashtime Life wasn’t just a structural change, it also symbolised a rebirth of K.O musically …
Totally. It came after we dropped ‘Mission Statement’. When those records came out, that’s how we launched ourselves. But they weren’t hot singles that blew the airwaves away. It was not a new sound. It was the current sound of the time like that T-Minus, Boi-1da and Drake kinda vibe. It wasn’t game changing as far as local sound is concerned because that is what we were doing all these years as Teargas; making game changing music. But with this, we were adapting an American sound and trying to localise it. We were not bringing our uniqueness as South African artists and unique music with South African cultural elements in it besides the language. So these are all the things that I was studying. So when I went solo, I thought if I’m going do this sh*t, I’m going to do the game changing sh*t I was doing with Teargas and I can’t continue doing what’s going on in the States. I’ve got to change the game so that whatever happens here, we are going to be received the same way that other South African genres like kwaito and house resonate with people. Like, kwaito was not something that you needed to be musically inclined to understand. It was just energy and very relatable content. I’m not saying that we had to water down our sh*t. But we needed to find a way that a taxi driver would get it. That’s how ‘Caracara’ came into being. And it was an experiment that I and the whole team knew would work. And skhanda, as an ideology, was born from that song.
Not only was skhanda born, but you were reborn from the cool guy from Teargas to a respected emcee. No one can ever take away the accomplishments you guys achieved as a group, but I don’t think that when people listened to Teargas songs they walked away thinking: “Wow, these guys can rap!” It was more a case of “that song is great.” But Skhanda Republic came out and suddenly you were being thrown in the conversation of best lyricist overnight. Were you always a lyrical
beast that people were sleeping on or did something change your writing and rapping style?
Truth be told fam, I saw myself getting better with each Teargas album that we put out. I listened to our first album the other day and I was like “what the f*ck?” Back then my peers would always be the ones to get love for their verses. And I would think, what am I not doing right? I’m naturally a person who strives to be the best so when their verses were the ones who were being rapped along to at shows, it bothered me that mine weren’t [laughs].Self-doubt was always a thing for me when it comes to my lyrics. So I always felt that I needed to over-deliver and work even harder and that pushed me. When Wafa Wafa came out people were like: “This n*gga actually has it.” I started seeing the improvement when we would perform and people were rapping along with me. I thought, I could really get used to this. So I looked at my rhymes, how they were structured, and studied the parts that people were receptive to most and it gave me an indication which things to do more of and which to do less. From there, I combined it with a lot of hard work in studio and just got better and better.
So you felt you had something to prove to people, lyrically?
Definitely. I think the whole thing started when ‘God’s Will’ came out with AKA and me. That’s when I changed my whole style of writing in terms of just the sh*t that I wanted to say. I started to actually make my sh*t more intricate and started playing with that and seeing interest in that. And at the time AKA was killing sh*t. So when people heard him on a record with me and I didn’t get swallowed, more people started to take me seriously. I didn’t want to find myself playlisted only because I’m from Teargas. I wanted my sh*t to be compelling. A lot of people didn’t even know who K.O was. People think I’m a new artist, and that’s exactly how I wanted it. I built on that energy.
Your lyrics became so aggressive all of a sudden…
There was a conversation that I had with my homie before I brought Thabiso in and I was telling my guys that there are new n*ggas killing sh*t on the scene and if we were not relevant, cats were about to move back into their mothers’ cribs. That’s how serious things were. Around that time, the hype around the Teargas album was dipping, which meant less bookings. There was a time when n*ggas went a month with
no work. It’s a f*cking problem! Because we had acquired all sorts of things; cars and houses and bonds that we had to pay. And it scared the sh*t out of me. There was a time I didn’t even want to go out of the house because things were so bad. I didn’t have gas money; that was in 2013! I had a big car and a house but I didn’t have gas money
and the bond was 12,000 a month. Do you know how crazy that is? That’s just the reality of how things can change from a hundred to zero. And these are the kind of things that a lot of these new guys are not understanding.
That’s real talk. How did this dynamic affect Teargas internally?
You have to understand that Teargas was leading the pack when AKA started slipping through and Khuli was making it big. And then suddenly we were pushed to the back of the line. And I’m not even gonna lie, there were a lot of mixed emotions in the camp when people started to feel like we were falling off. The biggest turning point for an artist is when you’re not the man anymore. Jay-Z said, “A drought will define a man when the well dries up” and that’s exactly it. How do you move when you are not the man under the spotlight? Are you going to hate? Are you going learn? That’s how ‘God’s Will’ came about. This is God’s will and there is nothing you can do about it, whether you like it or not. If God is saying Cassper is the most talked about artist, then that’s just what it is. You can either look at it and be like “f*ck that guy,” and you end up creating holes in your own situation. Or you can learn, understand how he’s playing sh*t and do it your own way. That’s how you build yourself and other artists.
That’s a pretty crazy experience to have gone through after already enjoying so much success for so long …
And that’s why you see me playing the game the way I play it. If it was another n*gga in my position – a million YouTube views, gold album, record of the year – they would probably be handling it differently. All these things that are happening, the whole skhanda sound, I gave birth to the whole South African hip hop identity. I should
be sitting on top of the mountain looking down on other people. But you don’t see me doing any of that sh*t because I realise that tomorrow there will be another n*gga and all this sh*t could be gone. So when I see all these n*ggas doing all that sh*t right now I’m like “Okay, homie you got a loud mouth on you. Let’s see what happens once
another n*gga enters and you’re not the topic of conversation anymore.”
So basically you’re not with the flexing, as far as accomplishments?
Some people tell me I need to up my hype game because with everything that I’m achieving, I’m still not top of the conversation. First of all, that’s not what I’m chasing. My music is doing all that sh*t for me because that is what I’m here to do. I don’t give a f*ck about no damn shenanigans. That’s not going to get me to win an award out there and that’s not gonna get me bookings. That’s not what I’m here for. I’m one of the busiest artists in the country right now. At times I’m even busier than n*ggas who are winning more awards than I am. An award doesn’t bring me any extra money.
The fact that I have the biggest song in the country doesn’t mean that’s what’s paying my bills. As long as my family is fed I have nothing to worry about. So if I’m going to invest so much emotion in the fact that I didn’t get an award and I end up saying the wrong things, my business will start to suffer. Brands won’t wanna f*ck with me. I can’t jeopardise that over a stupid accolade that doesn’t even come with a cent.
Surely, it depends what you do with the hype, right? I think with a lot of younger guys who are coming up right now, they’re using the noise that they make to try leverage it against something that does make them money. Being present in people’s minds gives the perception of being the biggest, whether it’s true or not, and they can maybe approach a brand or endorser. Music and especially rap is big on perception and the truth is less important sometimes.
With all the things that you’re mentioning and all these achievements, these are things that are raising the bar in the game. But how you play those achievements is what I’m questioning. Some people will turn it into a condescending conversation. They will put other people down and make them feel insignificant. My thing is, I want to get a million views and use that to say: “Hey you, you can do this sh*t too. You can do
double my sh*t if you work hard enough,” instead of it being something I use to make the next guy feel small. I won record of the year, but next year it could be the kid who was watching me accept the award from home. So when n*ggas sell 20,000 and are certified gold and start talking sh*t to guys who haven’t done the same, it takes away from the craft. Use that sh*t to inspire. I tell X all the time that he could be in my position in
no time.
Can’t argue with that. But even so, you must have those moments when you get close to saying or doing something to make these guys realise that they have not achieved as much as you have, especially with your experience. I think back to the comment Cassper made about you in the beef about having more money than you after MTV revealed you as their number one emcee of 2014. It didn’t cross your mind to put him in his place?
Dawg, I get those thoughts all the time. But the reason I didn’t respond in that situation lyrically is because I just felt like it was some weak a*s sh*t. He was looking for attention and it worked for him at the time. If you’re going to come at me, make me feel like you are saying something factual. He doesn’t know my situation. A lot of these guys exaggerate things. We see the truth but I’m not going to pull your card on some “Yo! I know you ain’t got no f*cking place to stay and I know your car ain’t paid up.” Eventually Cassper did the respectable thing and put out an apology, and life goes on. There are no hard feelings from my side.
Your insistence to not give out free music is admirable. The South African consumer has been spoilt for so long that we almost expect free downloads. How is that working out for Cashtime?
It’s being content and confident in your product. I’m not tryna bullsh*t these people. I’m giving them a fully-fledged high-quality product, so if they want it they’ll have to pay for it. Because a lot of people put out mediocre sh*t and put it out for free. So here I am sitting with a goldmine like ‘Caracara’ and I’m aware. I’m not gonna give you that sh*t for free. I busted my balls tryna come up with that record. I spent money, even if I spent
10 bucks. Fact of the matter is as a businessman, a capitalist and a hustler, if I put in 10 bucks I at least expect to get 20 bucks back. We’re not just trying to be famous out here. If you’re thinking this is all about hype and talkability you’re gonna die broke.
What is the legacy you want to leave behind?
A lot of people will tell you that they want to be the best rapper to ever do this sh*t. But that’s not what I’m chasing. I’m just chasing greatness all around. One thing that I want, whether on a small scale or big scale, I want n*ggas to look down on my grave and say “if it wasn’t for this n*gga I wouldn’t be here.” That’s what I want. I want to impart my greatness and success upon other people. I want to use my blessings to bless other people and that is what I intend on doing. If I can do that, I’ll know I’ve done right by the
talent that God has given me.